Ok. Reading this thread in full has actually quite pissed me off, some of the back stabbing comments and descent was simply appalling. The point of this thread isn't to start having a go at specific people saying so and so did this so and so did that, but to try and find a solution to a deepening problem.
So let's get things straight.
It's not bad to use a donor - the issue isn't anything to do with the use of donors, rather the misuse, where people take a base, and literally copy and paste an entire car of virtually the same make and model over it with very few modifications at all. Yes, I appreciate some are less skilled - but honestly what is the point? Why not just chop the donor? You'd produce ultimately the same image, but with better quality. Onyx's work is a very good example to follow a lot of the time - a mixture of c+p and brush from a few sources, to such a point that the donor image and car isn't immediately obvious. This takes a lot of time and effort, fitting the reflections and parts to a totally different car.
We have nothing against this! This is actually very sensible! In other words a full brush isn't essential. In fact some of the best chops aren't fully brushed at all... TK Tuning consistently shows brilliant examples of how this should be done
Chopping Isn't a Race - Some of you have raised the point that you don't have enough time to do these so called 'full brushes' or crazy designs, and only have time for a few hours a week. That's a few more hours than I have, and this shows in the fact that I've only made two chops this entire year. But secondly, a chop doesn't have to be drawn out over a long time to be good, sometimes quick and simple is the best! In fact some of my best chops have been relatively quick and involved a relatively small amount of brushing, but unlike a lot of chops, it isn't a straight c+p from another photo, because this would just be boring and pointless. Instead you can work with what you have in the base, with minimal brushing and still produce a final image that looks nothing like any other photo on the web. It's just a case of using your imagination sometimes, which is why I hate it when I see people calling Zyko's work a disgrace. His imagination and creativity may be unconventional, but it's interesting and thoughtful, something greatly lacking from many chops appearing across the forums.
At the same time I would also like to point out that the example of sckrly's 350z, actually contains a lot more work than it appears at a glance - take your time to really look over it. It is a relatively quick chop, but it is a lot more than a 100% copy and paste, however I admit he could have put in more effort to change things up a bit more.
As for some of the proposed rules of posting a full list donors, I'm not sure I'd completely agree that this is a solution, nor would I say that a name and shame is a good idea either. A certain amount of common sense is required, and it's usually pretty obvious when someone has taken a full car and just pasted it over the top. Sometimes, with more obscure donors it's not, but forcing people to post their reference and donors creates a somewhat negative atmosphere, a feeling of distrust and suspicion that can only be dissipated by posting several images. I know from personal experience that I would not want to post all of my donors, as sometimes it requires literally hours and hours of searching, only drop it right on another artist's plate. Take my current team chop with spam (wooo ultra top secret bruh
) - I must have spent over 6 hours searching for an even slightly suitable bg, which has since been modded significantly. That's an awful lot of time. This is especially notable when trying to find rare sets of rims - you don't want to see them on every chop under the sun... but you catch my drift.
I think part of the way to solving this problem isn't necessarily enforcement of 'laws'. Yes we maybe need to be a bit stricter and point some wise words of advice towards those who consistently post these "chops" from a single near identical donor, but clamping down too harshly loses all the freedom and relaxed feeling to the site. Instead we need to provide them with the skills and resources that will allow them to create a piece that they would be proud of. With the wide spread availability of high quality donor images these days, it can be easy to take short cuts, short cuts that simply weren't possible in the past. I think something which we all need to do is take a look back at some of Pete Smith's (DM's) chops, to show what's available with very little brushing and/or donor use - creative and very effective. We need to create some sort of incentive for people to try out these sort of chops, perhaps rewards for different styles and techniques like Construct once suggested, and more tutorials aimed at some of those more basic techniques that may be simple, but are extremely effective at producing dramatic changes.
It's a tough one - while there is the means to 'cheat' and take short cuts, there will always be people who exploit these paths, but ultimately we all have consciences, and I know for one that if were ever to post one of these full c+p chops, I simply wouldn't be satisfied, and would feel extremely uneasy if I were to claim full brush or whatever. Unfortunately this isn't enough to dissuade some people, so warnings should perhaps be handed out. The fact is though that it's happening at all levels, not just nca/inter. Even at the top levels there are those who perform 'full rebrushes' that pretty much c+p from an identical car then rebrush identical reflections. This is equally pointless and deceiving, and it too needs to be stopped.
Reforming the voting system may also play a part in preventing this sort of thing, as at present I rarely see a vote lower than an 8. A simple + or - rep on a chop may be a solution, a little like the youtube "like" and "dislike" buttons with a bar representing the % of votes would lead to less guilt among choppers and greatly simplify the whole thing. That way it's very easy to discredit those who 'cheat' without saying 'this is a shit chop'.
So in summary:
->Fucking Common Sense yeh? We don't need over strict rules, just a bit of thinking and perhaps some words of wisdom to the offending people
->More incentive for creative chops - Construct's idea a bit back for a series of awards and tasks for different things is fucking awesome. Klaus, you know what I mean here.
->Reform dat bitch voting system. Make it a simple + or - like on youtube.
Final point. Everyone CALM THE FUCK DOWN. This isn't meant to be a bitching arguing thread, it's about making this forum a better place. So please stop having goes at each other. I know how easy it is to say things we don't mean in these situations when everyone's accusing each other of various things, so let's move on and make up. We all have our differences, which is why we should do our best to EXPRESS OUR OWN FEELINGS AND IDEAS THROUGH THE WORK THAT WE PRODUCE. Probably plenty more that I wanted to rant about but forgot as I typed this
. So expect more from me in the near future.
