^^Darn well put!
Global Rank: 0th (14909pts)
Reg: Sep, 2009
Spain
Global Rank: 0th (15378pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Australia
Global Rank: 0th (9435pts)
Reg: Mar, 2011
Portugal
Global Rank: 0th (1537pts)
Reg: Sep, 2009
Norway
Construct wrote:
I feel like the point of this thread still doesnt quite get through to people. So I'll try to explain it differently. There are a ton of potential C/P sources, and everyone has access to them to build very unique things, it just isnt happening.
For the C/P parts you can draw a comparison with good old LEGO blocks. Lets say you buy a kid one of them big LEGO Airport boxes:
This is the starting point. The kid uses the LEGO bricks and builds himself a nifty airport according to the diagram that came with it, so it looks exactly like the airport on the cover. So after a while the child gets tired of playing with his airport, breaks it down and the LEGO pieces go back into the box.
Next day comes and he opens the box back up. Instead of rebuilding the airport, now he uses the same pieces to build a police station, and the next day a spaceship, and the next day a garage.
That is where the comparison ends though. Because while the 8 year old kid thinks of something new to build with his LEGOs, you guys just keep building airports. One after another. Even though a few individual LEGO bricks might end up in different places, we can all tell you're building airports. And then you present these airports as your own design. Some guy at LEGO headquarters who came up with the airport now feels like shit.
The internet is just that, a very large box of parts. But you just keep rebuilding whatever's on the pictures and presenting it as your own work. No, the trick to C/P is combining unique pieces and adding elements of your own.
For the C/P parts you can draw a comparison with good old LEGO blocks. Lets say you buy a kid one of them big LEGO Airport boxes:
This is the starting point. The kid uses the LEGO bricks and builds himself a nifty airport according to the diagram that came with it, so it looks exactly like the airport on the cover. So after a while the child gets tired of playing with his airport, breaks it down and the LEGO pieces go back into the box.
Next day comes and he opens the box back up. Instead of rebuilding the airport, now he uses the same pieces to build a police station, and the next day a spaceship, and the next day a garage.
That is where the comparison ends though. Because while the 8 year old kid thinks of something new to build with his LEGOs, you guys just keep building airports. One after another. Even though a few individual LEGO bricks might end up in different places, we can all tell you're building airports. And then you present these airports as your own design. Some guy at LEGO headquarters who came up with the airport now feels like shit.
The internet is just that, a very large box of parts. But you just keep rebuilding whatever's on the pictures and presenting it as your own work. No, the trick to C/P is combining unique pieces and adding elements of your own.
Global Rank: 0th (16212pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Norway
OK im gonnajump on the bandwagon here, before the shit hits the fan.
Firstly that post by Construct " is SPOT ON" well done mate explains it very very well.
I will try and make this short, but its gonna be difficult
Back when I first started chopping, we only did small changes , like wheels, tints, lowering etc.
This is what we now call " stance " from what I feel.
No background change no scenery nothing .
This was the first move in chopping and since then it has evolved greatly to something completely different.
We some changes on an image, but most of the changes are from one image, as HUI explained this is just laziness, and most find the easy way out by finding some image that has same angle as the base, or in some cases posts the base and uses a hole different base as a starting point .
Before on DM I used to remember that a chop took anything from 1-3 days to get done, not only because we where a lot weaker skills wise back then, but also because we did it creatively and managed to look around for resources which could take hours, and the end result could be like the "stance " photos today, nice simple and clean.
But they had also changed the scenery most times,.
I remember I could spend days even weeks on one chop to get it right, it was because I my self wanted to change the image so drastic that no one could tell what base I was using.
But most people did also do this back then.
Now the problem I feel is that it is to easy to get hold of a "nice " image, and when someone see an image they like they use it as their base slap their base on it and just changes some wheels and says its " theirs "
This image will never be " theirs " because there is only 10 % car on it .
This is an issue we have had since day 2010 early 2011 on autemo I feel, after stance nationstanceworsks , vossen, 360forge etc, got on the spotlight.
Today creativity is nothing I see any more, I know a few that still does it, and they know who they are
but I think its something we need to bring back.
We are ALL responsible for our actions and what we use and take, it does not effect just as a person but also Autemo as a reputation and community, and I feel horrible when I see an image on Facebook posted from Autemo and I see and kinda feel that there has only been used 1 base and I see a " stancenation / stanceworks logo printed on the bottom.,
What scares me is when the "photographer " strikes back , HUI feels this to his bone I think because he works as it, but I feel NONE of you who use one image as base have respect for them at all.
I have only been it a short while and I do feel "ownership of my photos from Oslo show and I would be so pissed if someone just took one of them and copied the entire car onto his base.
Chopping started as COPYPASTE, and I feel that we are in a "phase " now,
"using photographers I am lazy phase " and 2 years ago it was " copy paste " is wrong phase"
I felt that if you copy pasted you where " flamed and drowned " into a pit on first comment, and I tried many times to find a reason why it was like this, its what started chopping in first place so WHY was it wrong.*
This was especially hard for the new people who tried to chop and wanted to try to get into the community but if they did not have tons of " fake reflections "and and over the top looks it was not appreciated at all.
What I am getting it I feel people are "safeing " it now " they are afraid to try something new, they cont dare to do something different because the " fright " of getting flamed and unappreciated , its sad to see how the community has changed and turned to a place I feel is is not "kind " to new comers.
And its much easier to be " liked" when you have a scenery that looks amazing with perfect reflections from one picture like for instance stance nation and stance works, everyone love their images, so its sure " win ", and what people want is to be " liked " its in humanity " and they will follow this path cus its like a culture, you want to be hip you have to be how others are.
HOW CAN WE FIX THIS
I think we can all change this as a hole, but I think it will take timen it is not somthing that will be done over night, and it will take commitment from all of us, and instead if pushing people down, try and help them and explain what they are doing wrong and what they can do to improve.
What if we did as the Comps, and had a as mandatory you had to post, base, resources images on each chop so that you show that what you do is legit.
Or we can have comps where you have to be creative like a theme comp, etc.
And As HUI said be stricter on the images we see posted on the forum.
Anyway I have written loads of stuff most must be totally stupid but I am sick and I atleast tried ^^
I have only some last words to say
CREATIVITY It is what define you as a "artist " chopper "and without it your just a
COPYCAT " imo .
regards
Christer / aka / glacius
Firstly that post by Construct " is SPOT ON" well done mate explains it very very well.
I will try and make this short, but its gonna be difficult
Back when I first started chopping, we only did small changes , like wheels, tints, lowering etc.
This is what we now call " stance " from what I feel.
No background change no scenery nothing .
This was the first move in chopping and since then it has evolved greatly to something completely different.
We some changes on an image, but most of the changes are from one image, as HUI explained this is just laziness, and most find the easy way out by finding some image that has same angle as the base, or in some cases posts the base and uses a hole different base as a starting point .
Before on DM I used to remember that a chop took anything from 1-3 days to get done, not only because we where a lot weaker skills wise back then, but also because we did it creatively and managed to look around for resources which could take hours, and the end result could be like the "stance " photos today, nice simple and clean.
But they had also changed the scenery most times,.
I remember I could spend days even weeks on one chop to get it right, it was because I my self wanted to change the image so drastic that no one could tell what base I was using.
But most people did also do this back then.
Now the problem I feel is that it is to easy to get hold of a "nice " image, and when someone see an image they like they use it as their base slap their base on it and just changes some wheels and says its " theirs "
This image will never be " theirs " because there is only 10 % car on it .
This is an issue we have had since day 2010 early 2011 on autemo I feel, after stance nationstanceworsks , vossen, 360forge etc, got on the spotlight.
Today creativity is nothing I see any more, I know a few that still does it, and they know who they are
but I think its something we need to bring back. We are ALL responsible for our actions and what we use and take, it does not effect just as a person but also Autemo as a reputation and community, and I feel horrible when I see an image on Facebook posted from Autemo and I see and kinda feel that there has only been used 1 base and I see a " stancenation / stanceworks logo printed on the bottom.,
What scares me is when the "photographer " strikes back , HUI feels this to his bone I think because he works as it, but I feel NONE of you who use one image as base have respect for them at all.
I have only been it a short while and I do feel "ownership of my photos from Oslo show and I would be so pissed if someone just took one of them and copied the entire car onto his base.
Chopping started as COPYPASTE, and I feel that we are in a "phase " now,
"using photographers I am lazy phase " and 2 years ago it was " copy paste " is wrong phase"
I felt that if you copy pasted you where " flamed and drowned " into a pit on first comment, and I tried many times to find a reason why it was like this, its what started chopping in first place so WHY was it wrong.*
This was especially hard for the new people who tried to chop and wanted to try to get into the community but if they did not have tons of " fake reflections "and and over the top looks it was not appreciated at all.
What I am getting it I feel people are "safeing " it now " they are afraid to try something new, they cont dare to do something different because the " fright " of getting flamed and unappreciated , its sad to see how the community has changed and turned to a place I feel is is not "kind " to new comers.
And its much easier to be " liked" when you have a scenery that looks amazing with perfect reflections from one picture like for instance stance nation and stance works, everyone love their images, so its sure " win ", and what people want is to be " liked " its in humanity " and they will follow this path cus its like a culture, you want to be hip you have to be how others are.
HOW CAN WE FIX THIS
I think we can all change this as a hole, but I think it will take timen it is not somthing that will be done over night, and it will take commitment from all of us, and instead if pushing people down, try and help them and explain what they are doing wrong and what they can do to improve.
What if we did as the Comps, and had a as mandatory you had to post, base, resources images on each chop so that you show that what you do is legit.
Or we can have comps where you have to be creative like a theme comp, etc.
And As HUI said be stricter on the images we see posted on the forum.
Anyway I have written loads of stuff most must be totally stupid but I am sick and I atleast tried ^^
I have only some last words to say
CREATIVITY It is what define you as a "artist " chopper "and without it your just a
COPYCAT " imo .
regards
Christer / aka / glacius
Post edited November 14, 2012 at 11:48:29 PM by Glacius
Global Rank: 0th (15378pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Australia
Good post Glac - I agree with pretty much everything you say.
The point about people being too "safe" is an interesting one and I think it's quite accurate. I too think people are afraid these days to step outside of their comfort zone and really produce something different - even I feel this pressure a bit myself. I'm not exactly sure why though? Perhaps it's just because there's literally so much of this "stance" stuff out there these days, and we're seeing more and more of it due to social media.
Getting people to go outside of their comfort zone is a hard thing to do. Perhaps introducing an "originality" rating into chop voting? Or perhaps categorise the voting into a variety of criteria... for example originality, presentation, skill shown could be one way to go. I think that'd also help people understand how to rate a chop on it's merits as well.
How do these ideas sound?
The point about people being too "safe" is an interesting one and I think it's quite accurate. I too think people are afraid these days to step outside of their comfort zone and really produce something different - even I feel this pressure a bit myself. I'm not exactly sure why though? Perhaps it's just because there's literally so much of this "stance" stuff out there these days, and we're seeing more and more of it due to social media.
Getting people to go outside of their comfort zone is a hard thing to do. Perhaps introducing an "originality" rating into chop voting? Or perhaps categorise the voting into a variety of criteria... for example originality, presentation, skill shown could be one way to go. I think that'd also help people understand how to rate a chop on it's merits as well.
How do these ideas sound?
puszka321 wrote:
please video 
MK211 wrote:
I really like the nos coming out of the rims
Global Rank: 0th (16212pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Norway
Global Rank: 0th (1401pts)
Reg: Mar, 2010
Australia
Construct wrote:
I feel like the point of this thread still doesnt quite get through to people. So I'll try to explain it differently. There are a ton of potential C/P sources, and everyone has access to them to build very unique things, it just isnt happening.
For the C/P parts you can draw a comparison with good old LEGO blocks. Lets say you buy a kid one of them big LEGO Airport boxes:
This is the starting point. The kid uses the LEGO bricks and builds himself a nifty airport according to the diagram that came with it, so it looks exactly like the airport on the cover. So after a while the child gets tired of playing with his airport, breaks it down and the LEGO pieces go back into the box.
Next day comes and he opens the box back up. Instead of rebuilding the airport, now he uses the same pieces to build a police station, and the next day a spaceship, and the next day a garage.
That is where the comparison ends though. Because while the 8 year old kid thinks of something new to build with his LEGOs, you guys just keep building airports. One after another. Even though a few individual LEGO bricks might end up in different places, we can all tell you're building airports. And then you present these airports as your own design. Some guy at LEGO headquarters who came up with the airport now feels like shit.
The internet is just that, a very large box of parts. But you just keep rebuilding whatever's on the pictures and presenting it as your own work. No, the trick to C/P is combining unique pieces and adding elements of your own.
For the C/P parts you can draw a comparison with good old LEGO blocks. Lets say you buy a kid one of them big LEGO Airport boxes:
This is the starting point. The kid uses the LEGO bricks and builds himself a nifty airport according to the diagram that came with it, so it looks exactly like the airport on the cover. So after a while the child gets tired of playing with his airport, breaks it down and the LEGO pieces go back into the box.
Next day comes and he opens the box back up. Instead of rebuilding the airport, now he uses the same pieces to build a police station, and the next day a spaceship, and the next day a garage.
That is where the comparison ends though. Because while the 8 year old kid thinks of something new to build with his LEGOs, you guys just keep building airports. One after another. Even though a few individual LEGO bricks might end up in different places, we can all tell you're building airports. And then you present these airports as your own design. Some guy at LEGO headquarters who came up with the airport now feels like shit.
The internet is just that, a very large box of parts. But you just keep rebuilding whatever's on the pictures and presenting it as your own work. No, the trick to C/P is combining unique pieces and adding elements of your own.
EDIT:(THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO GLAC AND KLAUS.)
I started a chop 3 months or so ago and I've been slowly doing things to it since. It's lowered, it has a bodykit from a completely different car (Think supercar kit on a compact car) and I am slowly, SLOWLY rebrushing the entire car, and although I did copy paste, I am only using the donors as a guideline, I feel like I'm doing what you say is the problem here - I am just doing the same old deal - rims, lower, bodykit, etc. But I don't think I should feel bad for that. You see, I do chopping for myself, I want to test my skills and make my dream cars, but I also want to show them off, so even though I do post them here, it's my style and I like that style. I don't agree with you saying that all cars are lowered and stanced and that's bad. Well I do think it gets old when people use the same sort of styling styling over and over again, I mean, personalise it, but I think the style is subjective and even though some might not see it as the most creative, the chopper still feels accomplished and proud of their result. I'm currently putting a White NSX bodykit on a White Impreza and rebrushing it in Dodge Viper green, to me, the combination of all these ideas plus my future plans make me believe my chop is creative, and although you guys might not agree.
I don't want chopping to be completely original, I mean, the world is dominated by Euro, JDM, Muscle, etc. styling and that's why it's so common here. I understand why you want people to be creative, and I try to be creative with everything I do - make it my own - but I think you guys are overexaggerating a bit. I totally agree with the 1 donor on 1 base problem, it's ridiculous how common it is, and it should be ruled out. My suggestion, for each chop to be submitted it must have at least 5 donors (seems like a reasonable number to me). This doesn't have to be presented in the post, but if questioned you should be able to provide the admins with donors.
Anyway, I'm tired and might be rambling, sorry about that.
Post edited November 15, 2012 at 12:15:18 AM by Sarge
Global Rank: 0th (16212pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Norway
Ah good way to show how C&P is done is to look at Charlie , yes I do mention him a lot but he did it the right way, and I think people have to look at his work and see what can be done with just copypaste.
Charlie
http://www.magicmanu.com/tuning/galerie/galerie_744-charlie113.html
ANd mostly CREATIVITY
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs16/PRE/i/2007/217/f/7/Scion_sCOOL___Education_by_charlie113.jpg
glac
Charlie
http://www.magicmanu.com/tuning/galerie/galerie_744-charlie113.html
ANd mostly CREATIVITY
http://th09.deviantart.net/fs16/PRE/i/2007/217/f/7/Scion_sCOOL___Education_by_charlie113.jpg
glac
Global Rank: 0th (22414pts)
Reg: Aug, 2009
Norway
Woohoo, I'm going to get originality point and wow factor points 
An about comfort zones, I always stay right on top of mine. It takes me 10 minutes to lower a car, tint the windows and shave handles etc. So I don't even bother doing stuff like that. I like the challenge of trying something I've never tried, and that I don't know if I can master. Sometimes that turn into something awesome, sometimes it turns into proper crap...
Right now I'm trying to do sublte'ish stance chops, because they are far from my comfort zone
An about comfort zones, I always stay right on top of mine. It takes me 10 minutes to lower a car, tint the windows and shave handles etc. So I don't even bother doing stuff like that. I like the challenge of trying something I've never tried, and that I don't know if I can master. Sometimes that turn into something awesome, sometimes it turns into proper crap...
Right now I'm trying to do sublte'ish stance chops, because they are far from my comfort zone
Some men just want to watch the world doing burnouts...
